Interview With Games as Literature's Samuel Gronseth

The dissecting and analyzing of video games has been going on for quite some time. There are theory videos, videos on identifying symbolism and things like that. There are books and academic articles that also do this, but the most accessible form of video game analysis has to be the various YouTube series.

While there are many of these sorts of series out there, ranging from Game Theory to Gnoggin, none do it quite the same as Games as Literature, run by YouTuber Samuel Gronseth. A channel that takes a moment to analyze the narrative of a game in a way that you may see a literature professor analyze a more traditional written story. He completely dissects the story in an educational yet easily explained way that can be understood and enjoyed by all audiences willing to listen. I had a chance to sit down with Samuel to do an interview.

NoobFeed: What inspired you to make you start your channel Games as Literature, and what made you decide to critically analyze games in a similar ways one would analyze literature?

Samuel Gronseth: My critical analysis of video games was actually a long process. I played games like any kid when I was younger, and it wasn't until I played games like Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time and Final Fantasy VII that I got invested in their stories. While I was discovering this, I was also taking a class called Film as Literature, and realized I could look at video games the same way. Ever since, I've been obsessed with interactive storytelling, and worked it into my college education whenever possible, including using my senior project to design the Video Games as Literature course I eventually taught.

Games as Lit. 101 actually began as an idea to create a formalized curriculum for my high school class, so others could teach it more easily than I had. We still hope to accomplish that at some point, but it's a difficult thing to pull off, so I started by trying to get some attention to the concept so we'd have some support and credibility when the time finally came. So I began writing video scripts based on lessons from my class, and that eventually got Games as Lit. 101 to where it is today.

NoobFeed: You mentioned that you taught a class before about video games and literature in a high school setting, what was that like? What sort of things did you cover? What was the general reception of your students and their parents?

Samuel Gronseth: It was interesting, to say the least. Fulfilling, unlike anything else I've done, honestly. It was really difficult to actually make happen; I was lucky enough to end up working with multiple charter schools, as they're more flexible and open-minded than more directly state-controlled public schools, so I didn't face any opposition from the schools themselves and actually got a good deal of support. The worst I got was the occasional patronizing comment, such as, “It's great that you're meeting students where they are, so you can get them interested in real literature!” They were well-meaning, so I never really took issue.

Parents were generally confused, but few actually had problems with it; I did have one student whose parents asked if the course was “legitimate” and whether their son would be playing Grand Theft Auto. People just have really narrow concepts of what video games are, and it made interactions with parents pretty interesting.

The more challenging elements were in the course itself. Preparing it was difficult, as I can't expect all students to have the equipment necessary to play many games. Thankfully, the schools each gave me a budget so I could buy a few games for the library, so it was possible (if still complicated). I ended up with multiple copies of some games across multiple systems, and Steam accounts that students could access. I would assign a game, discuss related elements until the deadline (i.e. lessons on first-person storytelling while they played Portal), then assign an essay on the game as it relates to the topics we discussed. Really, the class worked like any other literature class; we just played games instead of reading books.

The most enjoyable element, for me, was watching the students' understanding increase over time. At first, they had trouble getting into the proper mode of thinking; they'd only talk about the gameplay, and ignore the essay prompts in favor of basically writing game reviews. Some students even dropped the class as they realized they'd have to do more than just play video games. But over time, they really got it, and by the end of my first year teaching it I had multiple students and parents tell me the class helped them understand literature and storytelling more than any traditional literature classes had. Having been one of those kids who hated all the books I had to read in school, I know how powerful it is to learn from something you actually enjoy, and ultimately that's what made the class work so well.

NoobFeed: What was the gaming community's reception to your videos, and what sort of reactions have you had?

Samuel Gronseth: At first, the community's reaction was a resounding silence. In fact, for the first many months I struggled to get even 100 views on any of my videos. But I got a few dedicated fans over time, and eventually a few specific videos boosted my subscriber count immensely. In most of that time, the reaction has been pretty positive; lots of discussion, a good deal of positive feedback. Reddit has been my largest source of criticism, but all from people who would like to see me improve; surprisingly enough I've only had a few people criticize the show's positions and goals. Which is a shame, because I never get to actually have conversations with people who are convinced that video games are worthless; I'd enjoy that.

NoobFeed: There have been a few times where you've covered horror games in your videos that don't focus on particular games, what are your thoughts on the narratives of horror games and how important do you think the story, atmosphere and characters are to a game such as Silent Hill or Fatal Frame 3: The Tormented?

Samuel Gronseth: Thoughts on the horror narratives would depend on the game; you mentioned one of my favorites in Fatal Frame 3, and allegorical stories like Silent Hill 2 are a big love of mine. On the other hand, you won't get me praising the stories of games like Dead Space. It all depends on execution.

Personally, I think story, atmosphere, and characters are very important to horror games. Throwing gore and jump scares at me won't impress me; I want to be scared by the ideas, the implications, the depth and depravity of meaning, in addition to a creepy, well-paced presentation. Without that context of narrative, and the dread built by the atmosphere, horror games would just be a lineup of scary images, and that's not interesting or scary in any meaningful way.

NoobFeed: What are your favorite books to teach or discuss with your colleagues?

Samuel Gronseth: Heh, believe it or not I'm not as well-read as I'd like to be. It's what I get for getting my degree in writing instead of literature, I suppose. I've always been more a fan of modern works than “the classics,” so I spend a good deal more time discussing books like Harry Potter than To Kill a Mockingbird. Though I do enjoy talking Shakespeare when I can; I've still yet to catch up on all his works, but I love a good Shakespeare production.

NoobFeed: In many of your videos you imply that you believe that video games are an art form, and through your segments like “Counterpoint” you make a polite rebuttal with sources and solid arguments to the points presented. Can you tell us why you think video games are a work of art, and why they deserve to be critiqued as such?

Samuel Gronseth: To be entirely honest--and apologies if this sounds a bit judgmental or pretentious--but I don't believe an informed person, who understands video games on any meaningful level, couldn't consider them an art form. Or at the very least, that they have the potential to be. Art is difficult to define, but this is a medium that tells stories and expresses ideas through visuals, audio, text, performance, and interactivity. You can't tell me a coming-of-age story like The World Ends With You, a philosophical critique like Bioshock, or a beautiful allegory like Journey, isn't art just because the word “game” is in the medium's name. In short, video games are no less capable of beautifully and strongly communicating ideas than any other art form like painting, theater, or music.

Which means yeah, they need to be treated and critiqued that way. Whenever someone says it doesn't matter whether video games are considered an art form, it frustrates me, because we lose so much good from just mindlessly playing through these games. Potentially life-changing experiences become a wasted few hours just because we didn't bother thinking about it as we played, to say nothing of the potential censorship and cultural backlash that results from a general lack of appreciation for the medium's artistic merit (think back to that Supreme Court case a few years back that almost censored the medium legally).

In short, if video games are capable of the same artistic expression as other mediums – which they are – they need the protection and thought that comes from larger cultural recognition of that fact.

NoobFeed: Your longest video to date has been the video on Bioshock, where you analyzed multiple aspects of the game itself, including giving an overview of objectivism, a philosophy popularized by Ayn Rand that Rapture was heavily based around. Do you plan on doing other such philosophical overviews on other games that have a primary philosophical element to them in future videos? If so which ones?

Samuel Gronseth: I certainly plan to, though there are only so many video games currently that envelop themselves in any specific philosophy the way Bioshock did. I plan to tackle the rest of that series over time, which means I'll be talking about collectivism and nationalism eventually. I also plan to analyze Persona 4 at some point (specifically, when I have enough Patreon support to take work off a bit for analyzing long, complex RPGs), which bases its themes and mythos on Jungian psychology, so that'll be interesting. Ultimately, the act of analyzing a work of art often comes down to determining the underlying philosophies behind the story it tells, so when a game relates to a specific philosophy you can bet I'll be going into it.

NoobFeed: What has been your favorite video to do so far, and why was it your favorite?

Samuel Gronseth: I think I'm most proud of the Bioshock analysis, because it was a whole ton of work and I think it came out really well, and really detailed. But I think the most interesting one to actually analyze and create was probably Shadow of the Colossus. I just love that game so, so much, and I had my wife play through it before filming because I refused to spoil the story for her. She actually hated the gameplay most of the time, but by the end she still had an appreciation for it that we could discuss and agree on. Plus I just loved talking about it and listening to the music, so the actual act of making the video was pretty enjoyable, and I think it's one of my better analyses.

NoobFeed: Was it difficult to do your video series on Gears of War, one of the most action-based games in the past generation?

Samuel Gronseth: Yes, but only because I severely underestimated the amount of work it would take. I thought I could just go over the whole series in one video, and doing so was the only way to get to the good stuff since the first game isn't even worth talking about on its own; it turned into a four-part series crammed into two weeks.

But despite how rushed and stressful production was, actually analyzing the series was a ton of fun for me. I enjoy looking past a work's flaws to try and dig up its intended meaning, and the whole Gears of War series is a collapsed gold mine of meaning; there's plenty of it there, it's just buried under the rubble of incompetent storytelling and thematic inconsistency. So I quite enjoyed the process, when I wasn't pulling my hair out over deadlines.

NoobFeed: What are some of your favorite works of literature?

Samuel Gronseth: Considering the nature of my show, I'll assume we're talking about “literature” in the same sense, in which case I can include a variety of narrative mediums. This would actually be a pretty boring answer if I only talked about books.

As for books, as I mentioned before I don't actually have much love for the classics I've read, but I do love a good Shakespeare play; my favorites are probably Henry V and King Lear. I've spent the last few years catching up on The Dresden Files, and it's just a perfect mix of thematic depth and enthusiastic fantasy awesomeness.

The original Star Wars trilogy will always be my favorite work of film (Empire Strikes Back being my predictable favorite), but I also have a lot of love for Casablanca, Pan's Labyrinth, and Beauty and the Beast, among others.

Television shows, which I basically just consider to be long-form, episodic film, are a particular love of mine, especially animation and children's television. Avatar: The Last Airbender and Steven Universe are among my favorites, and I also love a good deal of anime (most notably Clannad, Steins;Gate, and Madoka Magica).

And as for video games, I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan (VI and VII are my favorites so far), and among my other favorites are Journey, Persona 4, Beyond Good and Evil, and Shadow of the Colossus, among others. Too many to name, really; we'd be here all day.

NoobFeed: Is there any game you wouldn't do on Games as Literature, even if you were begged to by your fans?

Samuel Gronseth: Not really. I'm pretty open to--NO WAIT. Custer's Revenge. I… don't even feel like explaining that one here. Just… no.

Thank you to Samuel Gronseth from Games as Literature for taking time to speak with me. If you want more from Games as Literature you can find the channel on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

Angelina Bonilla, NoobFeed (@Twitter)